Choose Your Own Adventure with Guest Matt Walker

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Interview Summary:

Life has a way of getting us into a very comfortable, yet repetitive grind. We wake up, we shower, we go to work, we get home, we eat dinner, we sleep, we repeat the pattern day after day. Some of us used to do stuff. Some of that stuff might have been considered fun. What happened? Matt Walker wonders that too, but actually wants to help infuse some adventure back into your life.

He founded and directs “Matt Walker Adventures” which leads small groups on mountain adventures with a focus on individual development. Why is it important to travel outside of our small town borders and see what else is out there? What irrational fears might some people have regarding international travel? What concerns are actually well founded? And what can be gained by experiencing something firsthand? Adventure is out there!

To Learn More About Matt Walker Adventure, Click Here!

Podcast Transcript:

– Hey, welcome back to the Urban Monk. Dr. Pedram Shojai hanging out with a buddy who I met at an event just recently up in Seattle area. We’re at this media thing. Everyone’s kind of talking, doing their thing, and then he and I got to talking. I was like, “Oh shit, you’re actually really, really cool. You’re doing some interesting stuff.” What he does is he takes people up mountains, real ones like Denali and Everest, the biggest of the big, and really helps people work through not just the physical but predominantly the psychological things that you got to go through to go through the rites of passage of getting up one of these suckers. It’s not easy, but the challenge is a lot upstairs. It really helps when you align your mission and your purpose, and you get all the crap out of the way. I thought there was just a really cool subject matter for us here at the Urban Monk and wanted to hang out and talk about it. So Matt Walker, welcome to the show.

– Thanks Pedram, great to be here.

– Yeah, so you got all the carabiners and gloves and crazy stuff behind you. You’re in it man. You’re climbing mountains all the time.

– I am and in fact, right before we just went on live right now, I’m packing for a trip that leaves tomorrow morning. It’s kind of a nonstop shuffle in terms of packing and unpacking and staying organized and trying to keep it all moving forward. Yeah, I’m in the mountains all the time, which is great and at the same time, I’m home and running my business as well. There’s always the balance of doing both of those things.

– Yeah, it’s a tough balance actually. You know, it’s really hard to, when you’re on a big mountain, you’re there. If you’re there with three people, five people, six people, it’s your undivided attention and so when you come home then there’s a shit show to deal with. At home versus on campaign is a very interesting vibe because you gotta be absolutely 100% present when you’re up on those mountains. I mean, it’s life and death.

When Climbing, You Have No Choice But To Be Present And Aware - @MWadventrue via @Pedramshojai

– Yeah, that’s right and that’s where for me, and I’m still, I imagine this will be a life long challenge but I’m still challenged by ramping up and ramping down, ’cause you definitely need the down time afterwards but then there’s demands as soon as– You think about anybody who’s a road warrior who’s traveling. As soon as they walk in the door, they need to be present to their significant other and to their children. Making those transitions and trying to be in the right head space to move from one to the other is work.

– It is, it is. For me, I call it popping in the clutch. For people like millennials, they don’t even know what that is but people who had stick shift cars, right? You actually would have to really understand that to change gears, there’s this kind of middle zone. It is, it’s mental prep. There’s a lot of things that go into it, ’cause it’s true. I come home from a business trip and it’s just like, “Oh good, you’re back.” Throw a couple kids at you and go. She goes and gets her nails done and needs some privacy or whatever.

– [Matt] Sure.

– I’m just like, “Hey guys, hi.”

– Right, yeah. You know, I think you hit on something that’s so crucial for all of us, whether it’s off a big trip or just at the end of the work day or whatever. What are those rituals of transition? I think one of the challenges that we face right now is those rituals of transition are compressed because we’re on demand with our work and personal lives in a way that’s unprecedented through technology. How to create that space for ourselves emotionally that you can literally pop the clutch. You can transition from one to another and be able to be present. That’s the game, right? To be fully present and engaged with our loved ones and with the work that we’re doing, and trying to keep that monkey mind at bay.

– Yeah, and so some people think that that’s something that they will start practicing next time they come home and they’re already in trial by fire. It’s an acquired skill, right? Your mindfulness needs to be practiced every morning on the cushion and needs to be something that you take with you so that when times are tougher, that’s when you need to pop in the clutch. Those neurons need to be firing already.

– Yeah and you know, that brings up something interesting for me is that one of the reasons why I really love climbing and love taking people out who have not experienced that environment before. People that are goal oriented, action oriented, very driven, successful in their work is that when you’re in that climbing environment, the only task you have is to breathe and to move with intention. Oftentimes sitting on the cushion, that’s an acquired skill that if someone is accustomed to a lot of fast movement and fast thinking, it’s a tough transition. But when you take them out into the wilderness, take them into a climbing environment, you can apply that same mindfulness to the movement process through breathing and through slower movement. You can see, literally you see people’s whole persona shift. Their shoulders relax, the tension relaxes off their face, and they become present in the moment. It’s powerful to watch that shift that can occur in just practicing being present right there in the moment.

– You know, there’s something to be said for having something be high stakes, too. If I fall asleep on my meditation cushion, I might fall over, I might fart, I might jolt and look like an idiot, but no harm no foul. I don’t have that same kind of margin of error on an ice wall. I don’t have that same margin of error racing a motor cycle. There’s a lot of things out there that really test mindfulness in real time, in compressed time that do it. I have a story. I think I shared this with you when we met, but when I was climbing Huayna Potosí in Bolivia, we were just around 20,000 feet and I’d come from the jungle the day before. We slept up at 18,000 feet and started hiking to summit. I’m in my 20s, I can do anything, ha-ha, right?

– [Matt] Right.

– So I’m with this guide who’s running around like a goat and these two Swiss guys, one of which has a splitting headache and is crying, one of which is delirious and sounds like he’s on LSD, and I have basically got this headache that’s just starting to mount up, right? The altitudes starting to get me, and I just remember it got to the point where I was taking one step per breath.

– [Matt] Yeah.

– Right, and literally it’s thin and you’re just like– At one point I was taking about five breaths per step and my whole thing was like, I’m gonna take this next step or I’m gonna die trying, and it was just this amazing corralling of willpower that then brought out this inner strength of the man that I became on the other side of that adventure. There was something really powerful about it.

– Yeah, how often does that sort of experience occur? To condense that kind of thing into a mountain climbing experience, it’s really easy to then start to apply that metaphor in other ways. It’s hard to imagine when you are at sea level or where we are right now that you could actually be in that state where you’re taking five breaths per step. It’s hard to actually fathom that’s possible, but that’s very real and very true. You’re constantly evaluating, can I take this next step forward? You can. Most of the time you can, and that’s what’s pretty cool about climbing for me, is applying that experience back into other arenas of our lives because we have a low threshold of our tolerance for adversity. When that boundary is hit, oftentimes it’s easy for us to push back and say oh, that’s gonna feel uncomfortable. That’s gonna feel difficult and hard. I’m gonna go towards something that’s more comfortable and easy, when our capacity is so much greater than that. Outdoor adventure is a catalyst for testing that and figuring out where that line is.

– So how did you get into this? Obviously you’re doing your thing. You’re climbing mountains and you’ve kind of found religion yourself doing this thing. At some point did you just invite a buddy along or invite some friends and be like, “Yo come on, let me man you up or something”? How does one start doing this?

– Yeah, I’ve been guiding all over the globe, all seven continents for the past 22 years now. The way it started for me was I wanted to climb internationally. I lived in the Seattle area and I didn’t have the funds to do it, so I was like how do you do this? How do I get in these other arenas? How do I get in these other mountain ranges? A friend of mine was a mountain guide and he needed help on a specific trip, so I joined him on that trip. This was down in Aconcagua in South America, and he had an injury and I had experience in that world. He had an injury. He couldn’t do the second trip and he basically is like, “Here’s the reins.” That started about… That started this process of being able to travel all over the world and guide. The learning for me occurred, I guess not the learning. Kind of the epiphany that for me was two fold One was I was watching all of these clients return as guests on these big international expeditions and they were looking for something bigger in their lives. They were going on big mountain expeditions in order to feel that level of vitality, and high energy, and feel engaged. They were escaping things in their every day, whether it was their personal business or something in their personal lives. That just got me thinking, seeing this pattern of behavior, and then around the same time I had a personal climbing accident where I took a pretty big fall, about a 200 foot fall in the Himalayas, about 22,000 feet. Significant injuries in my back, in my chest, in my head. The fast forward for that whole thing was I was forced to do some physical therapy and surgery and I took a couple years off from climbing and guiding. Through that time, went and got a master’s degree in organizational development with the goal of being able to connect the dots between our personal and professional lives and the leadership challenges we face in those worlds, and outdoor adventure space. So I had my foot in both worlds for a while and then figured out a way to connect the dots and combine them together. So now the work I do is still outdoor guiding in the traditional sense, but as you said in your intro, with the emphasis on applying those lessons into other arenas of our lives.

– And you see this, right? When someone goes off, Frodo goes and dumps this ring off in a volcano. It takes him a while. He comes back with some scar tissue. He’s never the same man again.

– [Matt] Right.

When We Face Challenges, We Change - @MWadventrue via @Pedramshojai

– So what happens? What is this arc of development as people– Say I’m just some corporate exec dude and I’m like, “You know what? Screw that, Mount Everest, right?” I’m 40 pounds overweight and I’ve got problems with my life and my family and all that. The arc of being able to even get to Everest must be a huge thing.

– Yeah, so the arc kind of goes like this. I start on something smaller, usually in the Cascades. Mount Baker, Mount Rainier, something like that. It’s not that hard. I have some success, I’m feeling confident. I go into one of the bigger mountain ranges of the world and I have my ass handed to me. It’s that moment of humility that the choice is made to either engage with the challenge and recognize that my ego and my belief in being able to power through this thing just like I power through other things in my life is not what’s going to take me to the next level. So you have the choice of whether to be open to influence and be humble about that or to kind of place blame and go down another path where you’re just like, “Oh, this isn’t for me. I’m not gonna go down this, I’m not gonna do this anymore.” There’s a line that gets challenged along the way where people have to make that choice, ’cause mountains are not something that are conquered. It’s not something you can just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and suck it up and just drive as hard as you can and make it happen. It’s a dance. There’s finesse, there’s humility. You can’t control the weather. There’s all kinds of different factors and elements that play into this thing that you have to be able to come to terms with, that you are climbing in concert with nature, essentially. Oftentimes that’s the challenge I see. Are people willing to embrace that, embrace their humanity through that process, or are they gonna consistently meet head on into their own challenges and their own blocks and not be successful in that world?

– So it’s an ego softener to say the least.

– Ego softener to say the least, yeah. It increases people’s level of patience, increases clarity and communication. I think it also just starts to shift people’s perspective on recognizing increasing empathy, recognizing that all of us have different reactions to different challenges. As a thought leader and a business leader, that to me is some of the biggest learning is people have this shift where they’re able to put themselves in the shoes of their partners or of their employees and recognize oh, my perspective is not necessarily 100% correct. I can start to see things in a different way. I think facing physical and emotional challenge allows for that shift to occur. So you’re right, you come back from these adventures and you are definitely not the same person who left. The challenge is are you gonna allow for that learning to take place? I see frequently that that’s where the dividing line is. Am I going to allow myself to recognize that there’s a different way of being in the world? Some people are able to do it and some people aren’t.

– It’s like the old kind of classic fixed mentality versus growth mentality and whether or not you’re willing to grow from an experience. If you’re trying to just conquer the mountain and pee off the top of it, you’re probably gonna get your ass handed to you.

– That’s right, that’s right. You can get a false sense of confidence, false sense of bravado, early in the process because you are probably gonna be on more beginner level terrain. If you’ve got a high level of fitness, you can probably punch through without finesse or that much technique, and then there’s gonna be a moment where you’re gonna hit the wall and it’s gonna test you. That is where the learning takes place, so that’s when I think about being open to influence and open to ideas. Am I gonna allow myself to be vulnerable and have that learning take place? When it happens, it’s powerful and it’s beautiful. I would say… I’d say it happens probably 90% of the time on the trips that I lead. If you hold that space, people will walk into that and have that sort of powerful experience.

– So you are curating and preparing someone for an adventure in order to create all the right circumstances so that they can cook in the soup and really find themselves.

– [Matt] That’s right.

– You talk about five elements of adventure. Can we go through that?

– Yeah, so I deliver keynotes and I wrote a book called Adventure in Everything which covers these five elements of adventure. I’ll send you guys a copy when you figure out how to get them out to some of your audience members as some freebies, but the five elements of adventure is basically the foundation from which all of this work takes place. Really what it is, it’s a way to shift perspective on how we move through the world and how we engage with our personal and professional lives. So the five elements are high endeavor, uncertain outcome, total commitment, tolerance for adversity, and great companionship. When we can put energy into each of those five areas, that’s what really allows us to be able to step fully into that sense of presence we were talking about earlier, to be able to engage in a way that utilizes our strengths and allows us to have that full presence. But naturally, some of those elements are gonna be easier than others, so that’s where the tests and the challenge comes from is how to engage each of those five pieces through the whole process.

– That’s interesting, and so if I with my buddies say we’re gonna go up K2 which is known as one of the most technical, hairy–

– [Matt] Dangerous mountains in the world?

– Dangerous mountains in the world, right? So I say that’s it, we’re gonna do it. We’re all accomplished in this other shit, but now we’re gonna go do this thing. So what does that take? What does one need to do physically? Do you need to do a lot of pull ups? Do you need to run some miles? What do you gotta do mentally? How do you prepare for something like that?

– Yes, so let’s pull back from K2, ’cause that’s such a huge, huge climb, undertaking. Let’s talk about something like Kilimanjaro, which I consider to be kind of an every man’s climb. It’s challenging and it’s hard, but it’s accessible. For that, what I– There’s technical skills that are needed, whether that’s rock climbing skills, or backpacking skills, or general mountain skills, and then there’s the physical conditioning. The reality is, when I talk to clients who are interested and who haven’t done this sort of thing before, the first question I ask is can you walk up a flight of stairs? Can you climb a ladder? These are basic human skills that we know how to do, and then we just apply them to a rock climbing environment. Kids naturally, they know how to climb super well immediately. We don’t really have to teach them how to do it. It’s just later in life that we forget that skill, but the basic foundational skill for climbing is there’s two that I would encourage. It’s the cardiovascular side, just staying super fit, having your heart rate up for a number of hours at a time, and then the second piece is the mental piece. That’s where I encourage a lot of mindfulness work, a lot of meditative sitting practice, to be able to get into a space where you can focus and move for hours and hours at a time.

Are You Willing To Recognize There's A Different Way Of Being In The World? - @MWadventrue via @Pedramshojai

– Yeah, yeah. Even with back country backpacking, I’ve done a lot of miles back in the back country. I mean, you get to the point where you’re like man, I’ve got five more miles before I can stop for the night. I’m kind of done, and it’s not an option, right? You gotta move. You’re gonna run out of food.

– [Matt] That’s right.

– So there’s a lot of mental resilience that builds into that.

– Yeah, and the flip side of the mental resilience piece is also really being able to take care of your physical needs and recognizing what it feels like in your body to have low blood sugar, what it feels like to have low levels of dehydration and take care of that ahead of time. There’s the self-care aspect as well, and I think that resonates throughout our lives. How are you going to take care of yourself throughout the entire experience? So when I talk about… When I talk about total commitment, it’s not necessarily about like I said earlier, sucking it up, pulling up your bootstraps and making it happen. It’s also about being present through the whole experience, that you’re committed to the entire experience, not just what’s happening right then in the moment. It’s kind of a flip flop back and forth. Yeah, I’ve got a few more miles to travel so I need to take care of myself to get there. So I have to hold that perspective and then I also have to hold the micro mindfulness perspective of one foot in front of the other, being safe in my travel. You’re holding both perspectives, that macro perspective and the micro at the same time and kind of flipping back and forth.

– Sometimes it’s the inner voice thing, though. If you’re like, oh I’m tired, I want to throw in the towel and you don’t know if it’s because your hip is sore or you blood sugar is too low or it’s just the fat talking, right? You know, ’cause everyone’s kind of raised into this no pain no gain crap, but then they tear the meniscus out of their knee because they misread that scripture, right?

– That’s right, yeah. I mean, therein lies the rub, right? I think the lesson from that is you gotta put the work in. You know, you’re not gonna go and climb K2 or climb Kilimanjaro right off the couch. You’ve got to put the work in ahead of time to be able to prepare your body and your mind to get there. If you’ve got knee issues, you’ve gotta start small and build up. Some of that comes from the humility and ego piece and saying, “I am gonna recognize that this is beginner’s mind stuff. I’m not there right now. I have to do the little work to get up there. I have to do the non-sexy stuff to be able to then move on and do some of the bigger objectives.” I guess the question that comes up is are you willing to do that work on the front end? If you are, it pays out in dividends.

– Yeah, but it’s tough, right? Because it’s like, okay, I’m 40 years old. I’m really good at this lawyering thing or this accounting thing, and I got a decent golf swing. I don’t want to suck at something new, but sucking is where– When you’re not good at something and when you have to face that, that’s where the bleeding edge of that growth is, right?

– That’s right, yeah. So then I would just pose the question of is that satisfying and fulfilling for you? If the answer is yes, then great. Then there’s no question there. If it’s not, then it’s time to suck at something. Yeah, that’s where the bleeding edge is. I mean, we all struggle with it but I have to say, especially in outdoor adventure, and climbing, and mountaineering, the learning curve isn’t that steep. It’s long, but it’s not that steep. If you’re gonna suck at something, it’s not gonna last that long till you can get a decent foundation and base level. So if you’re willing to put the time in and punch through that feeling of– I mean, it’s so humbling. You get people out there that are just like, if you read all the books about it or they trained hard, there’s no way you can replicate what the experience is like being on a mountain. You’ve climbed to the top, you come back down. You’re at camp and all you want to do is lay down and sleep. You got another four hour hike with a full pack to get back down to your car. That’s just how it’s gonna be. What are you gonna do?

– [Pedram] Get up and march.

– Yeah, that’s one of the beautiful things about it is it puts you in that place of testing in a way that we crave, but we don’t encounter very often at all in our lives. Our lives are incredibly comfortable and it’s not to mean that we don’t have stresses, ’cause we have tons of stresses and anxieties, but our creature comforts, and our physical comforts and our emotional comforts are pretty easy to come by. So you’re forcing yourself into a situation, a growth situation that’s gonna allow you to expand. People rise to the occasion. It’s very, very rare that someone doesn’t rise to the occasion and pushes beyond their preconceived notions of what’s possible.

– I would argue that that is in your genetics, and that epigenetic expression of facing that and having to work through that brings out the superhero in you. I’ve seen it in the martial arts. I’ve seen it in the mountains. I’ve seen it in a lot of places. You’re right. I mean we’re just lazy, we’re complacent. We don’t have any adventure and we don’t face any real life-threatening issues. Yeah, okay my paycheck just got cut. That somehow touches survival, but it sure as hell aint like a bolder coming down a mountain that you have to dodge.

– That’s right, right. I still experience this after 22 years of doing this. I have some of my clearest thoughts and… some of my most heartfelt, creative, clearest thoughts in those moments of exhaustion about that shift of how I want to show up in the world in other ways. You know, for whatever reason, being in that space allows for that vulnerability. It allows for me to think about things from– The best way I can describe it is that it is definitely a spiritual process. Pedram, I’m not a big woo woo kind of guy, but there is something that occurs in the spirit and in the mind when you are physically broken and continuing to climb forward. There is just something magical that occurs there.

– Yes, yes. You tap into another bank account that somehow replenishes from infinity, and it gives you access to something that you forgot was just right there, right?

– Yeah, and I know for me, it’s funny ’cause you and I talked about this when we first met and I’m sharing this with the world now. For me, I actually have this visceral feeling in my chest, this blue light that kind of extends in front of me. I mean, I don’t know where it comes from or what it is. I don’t really have a name for it as much as it’s just like this chi, this energy of power. I’m not able to access it all the time, but there are times through that level of focus and perseverance and challenge that just brings it out. As a professional, it is so awesome to be able to do that with other people. For me, it just brings it all home. I love to be able to facilitate that in others. It is such a cool experience.

– Yeah, what a treat. I mean, it’s a huge responsibility. Your job aint easy. You gotta mind a lot things.

– There’s a lot of moving parts.

– Yeah.

– Yeah, I mean mountain safety is absolutely, 100% number one on the list at all times. But I have to say, having a background in guiding, outdoor education, and then in leadership development, the responsibility piece, it’s so second nature that it allows me to be able to do this other piece of work in a way that it’s cool. I’m psyched that’s it’s come together the way it has. I love the work.

All Of Us Have Different Reactions To Challenges - @MWadventrue via @Pedramshojai

– Yeah, so who do you take up there? Who’s your average avatar? Who’s a good candidate for this type of work?

– A lot of entrepreneurs that have been successful in their businesses and kind of have reached a plateau. They’re thinking what do I do next? How do I reengage with either my business or other arenas of my life? I’ve been pushing hard for a long time. So that is probably the avatar typical client, male and female. It’s probably 50/50. 35 to 55, maybe 40 to 55. It doesn’t take a ton of time. That’s one of the cool things about climbing. There’s this perception that oh, it’s gonna take a huge amount of time. I don’t have time to do these things. Where as we go climb, we do a lodge based or resort based experience that’s three days. That way you stay in a lodge, or you go up into the mountains and camp for three days and climb mountains up there, or go to Kilimanjaro or Nepal or whatever it is. Those are 12 to 14 days for those longer expeditions, but it’s really three to 14 days and there’s whole variations in between. But I’d say yes, typically that kind of individual that’s looking to push themselves into the next phase of their life. They’ve had success in one area and they want to explore what it’s gonna look like to push into this next arena.

– Amazing, and you know there’s this feeling of life. You could be making tons of money, you could be doing well in a lot of areas in your life, but there’s something still missing and that something, that je ne sais quoi is tapping into that eternal flame that is right on the other side of survival and pushing through that envelope.

– Yeah, and I Just want to make sure we touch on this part. Mountain climbing is only a small portion of the education. It’s where the rubber meets the road and there’s the learning that you can physically experience and it’s embodied that way, but it’s also how are you going to apply the learning back into your other parts of your life? That’s where a lot of the coaching work comes into play. Supporting clients leading into those expeditions and then supporting them after the fact as well, so it’s not just this one off, “Oh I had a great time and then I went on my way.” But there’s actually, you’re able to identify what are the sticking points that got someone to a point where they wanted to do this and then how can you take that learning and move it forward and apply it. There’s a number of different tools that we use to be able to support that process.

– That’s amazing, and that’s the gift that keeps on giving because it’s one thing to have an experience, another thing to have an experience that then flavors your life and kind of keeps you anchored in your strength and your resilience and your focus and all these things. We’ve been talking about this for a while and we were trying to get on a trip where myself and my wife would join you in August. I got all the monkeys stacked for the movie and the book and all that. I’m going to wait till 2018, so what are we thinking for us? I really want to do this. I’m gonna bring some cameras and some GoPros and kind of take our audience along. If anyone wants to join the trip, there’s probably room for I don’t know, four or five people there. I want to pick a big mountain and I want to go do it right, and I really want to experience this whole thing with you.

– Yeah, so what I’m thinking right now Pedram is that we actually look at doing a three day Alpine climbing training. We get all the rope work done, we get some basic rock climbing movement in, some endurance work in the mountains in a mountain environment. Then we’re gonna go to a place called Carstensz Pyramid, which is in Irian Jaya, Indonesia, and start hiking in the jungle, hike through the jungle, go up to a big base camp at the base of this huge rock pyramid, and climb to 16,000 feet on this amazing chunk of limestone that you would never know is in Indonesia. You’ll have a down jacket on. It’s like going from a jungle up into the Alpine in one push. It’s basically Indiana Jones, if you can imagine that. That’s the expedition we’re gonna do in 2018. So we’ll start with some training and then launch into a pretty big, substantial expedition which is gonna be awesome.

– [Pedram] Oh, God.

– I’m super excited.

– That’s so good. I want that so bad and I want to bring my wife along. I want my wife to train towards this. I want her to have these types of experiences with me ’cause what happens is a lot of times in relationships, one person goes off and has all these amazing experiences. Then there’s too much space between you and your significant other where they just don’t understand what you’ve been through. Then that starts to create separation and all sorts of things and I don’t want that in my life. I want the journey.

– You know, I’ve seen that pattern happen. I guess what I would say is the other partner, whether it’s male of female, doesn’t matter which side of the partnership it is– It’s great to have exposure to it if they are into it and you guys can combine it together and strengthen your relationship around it. That is awesome. If it doesn’t work and the other partner’s not into it, that’s great but at least they have a glimpse into the reality of what it involves, which is very different than just kind of the escaping out onto these adventures where the other partner who’s at home really doesn’t have a full understanding as to the what and the why and what’s going on there. So I think it’s great to have some exposure for both partners and to do it together. I’ve got a number of clients who go on adventures by themselves, but then they’ve also done a day or two of rock climbing just with their significant other in order to just be able to share that experience together. Even though it’s not the cup of tea for the other person, that person gets a glimpse into what’s entailed in it and why it’s such a powerful experience for them. So I think it works both ways. If you’ve got the two joining together and they like it both, I mean it is such a strengthening opportunity for a relationship. If not, then at least you get a better understanding as to what’s driving the other person.

– Love it, love it. So I’m gonna call out Nick Palizzi and Kevin Johnny, who are two of my buddies, to grab their wives and children and we’ll make this a big family trip. We’ll all go up a mountain together and do it.

– [Matt] Awesome

– You guys hear me? I’m tagging you and then yeah, whoever wants to. All right, we’re running out of time. How do people find you, Matt? What’s the best way?

– I made it super easy. Go to That easy, so go there. You can click on the link and basically there’s two tools. There’s a tool there that you can hop on immediately that’s one of the tools that I work with clients on how to start the process. It’s one of the onboarding tools that I use for starting the process, how to create that sense of adventure and engage the five elements. Then I did a little bonus thing on that form. You’ll see my personal email address on there so if you’re interested and you like what you’re hearing and you’re curious about how this works, shoot me a personal email and I will get the next step to you directly so that you can start to engage in what I call the expedition ascent plan which is really starting to take some tactics and specific objectives and applying them in a way that really is just a shot in the ass. It’s gonna super charge you.

– [Pedram] Dude, I love it.

– and you can grab that stuff there. Yeah, that’s it.

– Dude, thanks for putting that together. My whole thing is I would love 10 or 15 people from my community to meet me on a mountain and climb it up with you kind of thing.

– We should do that, yeah.

– [Pedram] Right, how fun would that be?

Being Present And Engaged Is An Acquired Skill - @MWadventrue via @Pedramshojai

– Totally, I mean… I’m gonna plug this right now because it’s something that reminds me of what you just said. Let’s do that. We’ll follow up on that. we’ll get an Urban Monk expedition going next year for your community.

– [Pedram] Hell yeah.

– Make it July, July of 2018. There, it’s in the cards. I started a mastermind group that starts at the end of this month and I think there’s a piece that occurs where people think, “Oh, Pedram’s got his shit together. Matt’s got his shit together. Look at all that stuff that they’re doing. They’re cranking this stuff out.” My goal is actually to kind of pull back the curtain a little bit and to recognize that we aren’t operating in silos either. We have partnerships and we engage with others that allow us to do the work that we’re doing. I’m opening up a mastermind group, a small group, eight people, that’s gonna start at the end of June for the specific purpose of working in parallel with that team to apply the five elements of adventure. It’s a short 12 week program but I’m super excited ’cause it’s like, let’s just get in there, dig in, and apply these elements and see what we can pull off together.

– [Pedram] Love it, and it is hard work.

– Check it out.

– Yeah, having your shit together is a daily routine that you work towards and some days you’re not great at, right? That’s humanity.

– That’s right. That’s it, we are all humans.

– Matt, you’re a hero man. I am so excited to do an Indiana Jones adventure next year. I know it’s gonna take some work. I know it’s gonna take some prep. I’m all in, I love it. I’ve already committed to a standing back flip for the end of August.

– Oh wow, damn.

– Starting to get it back, you know? Just working, coming out of the young kid phase. I know you got a young one at home too.

– I got two young ones.

– Starting to be able to be out and more active, and doing things that bring the body to life. Having something like this pinned on the calendar for next July then gives you something to train into.

– Yeah, something to look forward to, to train to. It gives purpose to it. Yeah, we’ll get that going and we’ll launch that no problem.

– Hell yeah. All right, let me know what you think. Let me know if you want to come up a mountain with us. It’s a process. We’re gonna start training together. I love it. It’s my drug of choice. Obviously Matt’s the guy that does this all the time, so I just want to get out. Next year’s all about getting out more often and living this lifestyle. Let’s stop talking about it. Let’s go do it. Let’s put on some GoPros and climb up these mountains. Let me know what you think. I will see you there. Check it out, it’s He put together a couple tools and–


– Adventure, sorry., and man thank you so much. I know you’re going tomorrow. You’re packing and you took some time out to talk with us here. Get back and check your gear and we’ll talk when you’re back.

– You bet man, all right. Peace Pedram.

– [Pedram] All right, cheers brother, thank you. Thanks, I’ll see you next time.

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